I haven’t posted for a while, so don’t expect this story to go far as my readership has dwindled to around 3 people who come here by accident, however thought I’d share my disappointment in tonights Derren Brown; The Events Lottery reveal. Not because it turned out shit (I can’t argue with that) but because the British public were robbed of the chance to be shown one of the most incredible, daring and quite frankly outrageous feats of any performer who’s ever graced this planet. He rigged the lottery and he has the footage to prove it.
I attended the filming of tonights show on Thursday night with two of my best friends, my flatmate Dave and my (awesome) girlfriend, Fran. As anyone who’s attended the filming of a TV studio show will tell you, the experience can be drawn out and boring, retake after retake, laughing like it’s the first time you’ve heard the joke, everytime. The heat of the studio lights doesn’t help matters either (at one point some poor bloke fainted and hit the deck). The whole time the 140 of us were there however we were treated very well, the warm up act was a good laugh and kept things rolling along nicely and we were well watered (a couple of sandwiches wouldn’t of gone amiss though). Derren also came across as a really good, humble bloke, borderline shy at times.
Anyway, after about 2 hours of filming during the Wisdom of Crowds bit (2nd possibility) I was pretty much lapping it up as I’d just read a whole chapter about it in Crowd Surfing on a recent holiday and (ironically) thought it would make good subject matter for a blog post. Then they played the backroom footage of the 24 volunteers seeing the numbers match up on Wednesday nights draw. It didn’t sit right with me at the time and I didn’t think the crowd were very impressed either, it appears the 24 taking part weren’t didn’t buy it either (first comment from DaniBoi).
Then Derren goes into the explanation for Fixing the Machine (3rd possibility). The part where he runs up on stage to pick up the six racked counterfeit lottery balls had to be re-shot about 4 times, then the bit where he explains it by picking them up had to be shot a further 3. At this point we were getting a bit frustrated with the slowness of proceedings to get to what we all really wanted to see – evidence of how he did it.
This is it; here it comes
[Derren speaking]
“If I had picked the lottery (which I did not) then I would’ve known ages ago which numbers would’ve come up and then the guesses of the 24 people would’ve been meaningless as I would’ve switched their set of balls for the numbers I knew were going to come up…
[shot of a switch happening on stage background screen]
…i.e. the numbers on the heavier balls that I put into the machine,
[believe it or not, this now cuts to a profile shot of my previously mentioned girlfriend, Fran. This is weird enough in itself but I'll choose to ignore this and move on]
Now this next bit is fucking crucial, because it’s at this moment that live in the studio Derren introduced a short film by saying that what we were about to see was shot in November of 2008 on Oxford St. On the stage’s framed background screen they played a sequence of him on the top deck of an open top bus at night with last years Oxford St. Christmas lights going over his head. He walks down the centre aisle of the bus and has six kids (around 4-5 years old) sitting either side of him in banks of 2. He raises each pair of hands to show the balls they are holding, and points the numbers towards the camera. All 6 numbers that came up on Wednesday’s draw. He told us we were seeing an edited version and the full sequence would be shown when it was aired the next day.
In addition, here’s an entry from his blog dated the 27th of November 2008 (had to use Google cache as his blog is currently down) that supports the fact that he was
“Currently in the middle of filming on an open top bus around Oxford st under the Christmas lights (not pictured). Tried something I hope will pay off in a year or so. Could be quite exciting”
It’s also supported by an article on Broadcast Now from the 17th of August this year where they say
“The specials have been in production since last year and included some filming on an open-top bus in Oxford Street in the run-up to Christmas”
In addition, in the teaser trailer before the show he was holding a snowflake (can’t find the vid as again, the site is down) which is an obvious reference to the Christmas lights.
[UPDATE: Thanks to some of the Will and JoeTresh's sleuthing in the comments below I've added a few more links here]
A picture of the 6 kids I refer to can be seen on Derren’s blog post dated the 12th of August 2009
In the original The Events trailer there is a bus around 30-31 seconds in with a fake lottery logo saying ‘it will be you!’
[End of Update]
After providing hard evidence (which he told us at the time hadn’t been shown in full) to us, the live studio audience , why is he reduced to leaving this video on the cutting room floor and go straight to the words
“…but I would never admit to it, and if I was ever asked I will say ‘It was just a trick’”
It sucks the fucking big one. After the culmination of all of about three hours of my life on this project I can only conclude there are 3 possibilities for this;
- Camelot got wind of the existence of this footage and despite the fact that Derren at no point admits to rigging it if the footage gets broadcast Camelot are in a position where they can use the footage to prove Derren committed a crime in order to beat odds of 1 in 14 million. The footage is now probably 6 ft. deep underground somewhere in Hampton Wick
- He is going to hold on to the footage until the end of the Events to fuck with anyone who says he’s not the biggest, most badass performer the world has ever seen. I don’t think this is a possibility however as it completely removed the drama of the moment and we were only asked to not say anything about how it was done to anyone until tonights show was broadcast
- I’m an idiot
I’m not ruling 3 by any means, but I did speak to both Dave and Fran and my story checks out. We are ruling out mass hypnotism until Derren Browns special next week.
Looking at the aforementioned Brand Now piece from August:
Brown has described the first of the four specials as a stunt that “could be a career breaker.”
He said cryptically: “In the modern world of mass communication and big business, simple tricks can be developed to make even the most secure of systems vulnerable when you know where to push.”
One of these predictions has come to pass, seeing some of the haters on Twitter it looks like the other might too, I hope the open-top bus footage evetually sees the light of day. After so much hard work he deserves some credit, even though he could’ve committed mass fraud on a national scale it’s an incredibly beautiful thing.
Fuck ‘em. Nice one Browner, it was mint.
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That really does sound incredible, and I mean that in the most literal sense of the word, i.e. very hard to believe. Not that I don’t believe you, though, after all there is this post from “Emma” on Derren Brown’s Facebook page:
“Emma:
I’m SO confused! I was in the studio audience for today’s ‘How to win the lottery’ show, and at the end of filming we were shown a partial clip on the big screen that was up on stage of Derren that was clearly shot at Christmas time where he demonstrated something that would have clearly made an amazing twist in the show.
I do not want to reveal what was in this clip in case it spoils something that has yet to be aired, but Derren indicated that the clip in it’s entirety was quite important and I am sure he told us we would see it on tonight’s show?!
I do hope we will see it, it certainly tied in to the teaser that Channel 4 aired where Derren held the snowflake in his hand.
GAAAAH Derren, stop messing with our heads already!? HAHA! I love it really
”
(http://www.facebook.com/DerrenBrown and click on “Just Fans”)
Not to be too paranoid, but given all the talk of split-screens etc. I wonder how easy it would be to combine footage of the Oxford St Christmas lights passing overhead from an open-top bus (filmed last November, which as you describe it is the only clue to when it was filmed) with footage filmed either Wednesday night or Thursday night of the kids and him showing us the numbers on the bus? It does sound very far-fetched, but then so does rigging the National Lottery and then making a programme about it…
Btw, you can see the trailer with the snowflake on the Guardian website:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/video/2009/sep/10/derren-brown-lottery-trailer
Also, I don’t really care for the tabloids, but I think they might be interested in this story; you might want to give one of them a call. After all, I’m sure there’s someone in Objective Productions (the production company) who’d be willing to leak the footage for the right amount
Hey Andrew, I work for one of the red tops and actually mentioned this to the editor this morning! He didn’t fancy it.
Yes I did make that post Andrew. I wish you would have contacted me and asked if I minded you doing that before you just copied it and pasted it on here though!
free world emma, if you don’t wish to be quoted, dont post on a public forum
curiouser and curiouser. Now I’m so paranoid about d Brown I’m willing to bet this is a fake post by himself to throw people of the split screen scent.
And back to reality…
It is a shame that magicians have to turn to camera tricks but with that Masked Magician idiot on ITV telling everyone how the manual tricks are done then it was only a matter of time before magicians had to turn to electronics.
Misdirect #1 – The purpose of the second show on Friday was to misdirect everyone from the electronic answer to a “wisdom of the crowd” idea. It was nonsense. The first attempts by Derren’s team of psychics did no better than chance because they were guessing and doing the calculations.
Misdirect #2 – Remember Tyler, in Derren’s team of psychic helpers? He was removed from the team because he couldn’t do automatic writing and sat at the front to do the calculations. He was actually Derren’s confederate and all he did was listen to the lottery results as they came in (during one of their trial runs). Derren asked him to make two near ‘predictions’ and four correct ones. This gave the effect that the team are improving their abilities using automatic writing.
Misdirect #3 – On the Wednesday, Tyler is put back into the group with his job complete. This time Derren collects the papers himself, fakes doing the calculations and putting numbered balls into the tube. Again none of the team see actual calculations and Derren hurries out of the room to do the live event.
What actually happened…
Unfortunately, it was a camera trick using a split screen trick such as in this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqAt2akPHJ8
“But he was using a hand-held camera,” you say.
Misdirect #4 – When Derren enters the empty studio he introduces two cameras. Actually, there were three. He uses the 2nd to introduce the 1st but when he cuts back to the 1st he is now using the 3rd camera on a steady tripod. The camera shake is added digitally to make it look as though he is using the 1st camera.
Using an overlay, as in the video above, it was easy to change the blank balls for ones marked with the correct numbers. You can see the point when the overlay is removed because one of the balls miraculously moves as in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hveA0V5lskg
A simple trick sexed up with today’s electronics.
I watched a YouTube video of this illusion. At 1:45 the last number (2) was drawn by the National Lottery. At 2:09 Derren made his big reveal of the six numbers in the right sequence.
That’s 24 seconds for a hidden assistant to set-up the stack while we were distracted by Derren doing his prognostications.
There’s nothing magic in that. It’s just normal parallax/distraction with clever camera magic to hide the assistant.
Erm, he could have shot hundreds of shots of kids and cut it together no?
Or used post production to change the numbers on the balls?
I’ts really interesting that he showed the footage from the bus. I believe he filmed the kids there in November 2008. But were they really holding the right numbers in advance of the draw? How easy would that be to play with and fake? Pretty easy is my guess. Again, it’s not that impressive when he is showing the vt *after* the lottery numbers have been drawn.
As regards his description of how to ‘fix’ the lottery, his method wasn’t actually even foolproof. The balls being heavier would have made them more likely to come out, but not certain. He couldn’t have guaranteed getting five right that way and he’s not stupid enough to bet his career on anything but a guarantee. And what about next week and the week after? Will Camelot suddenly notice now and replace the balls? Or will the same numbers keep coming out? This is simply more misdirection and he didn’t broadcast it for the simple reason it would intrigue people more if they read about on a blog, like this.
I completely agree that Brown has been much cleverer than people are assuming, but I don’t think he fixed the lottery, or even predicted it. I don’t think the lottery draw prediction was even the point. It’s the misdirection he’s enjoying…
http://nicolamonaghan.blogspot.com/2009/09/events-of-misdirection.html
True, but what I find pretty interesting about it is that the room got 3, then 4 balls right. So if we are willing to agree that this ‘Wisdom of Crowds’ thing is total bollocks (which it is) then how did he get that right? Is there a chance he had a couple of dress rehearsals first? Or were the 24 all actors?
I don’t think we should read too much into this sideshow, as entertaining as it was. The fact that they crept slowly up to the magical total of six was just too convenient. And anyway, the very idea is just preposterous. That was purely a diversion and I think it’s safe to assume Tyler was a mole.
Your comment below makes no sense. Reason being that the some if not all of the 24 people involved knew what the numbers were for the 3 and 4 ball draws before the draw. That’s why when we were in the TV studio it looked all wrong when he didn’t reveal the numbers to them before the big draw
Actually, if you watch the one where they get three balls right, they give their numbers to the six people at the front who are calculating the averages, then they all watch the Lottery results, and then the people at the front actually calculate the averages and hold up cards showing what the averages are for each ball.
It’s not a very convincing way of doing it, because we have no idea if the people sitting at the table at the front are averaging the numbers correctly and honestly because they’re doing it after the draw results are known.
Actually, even without rigging before the final night, there’s a perfectly feasible explanation for them getting three balls, then four. Simply put, it’s not even that improbable they might get three or four balls. I have before. I bet you know people who have too. I know a couple of people who got five and the bonus too, and one who was part of a syndicate who got six. Imagine if he repeated this experiment with a few groups of 24 people. Derren wouldn’t even have to do this with that many groups to get the footage he needed cos it’s not that improbable. Add into the mix that he ‘calculates’ and records the numbers himself for that final prediction, sealing them in a tube before heading off to the C4 studio. This is just one possible explanation. The truth is, it’s just not that hard. (Harder than making it look like he’d predicted the lottery numbers in an empty TV studio but still, not that hard…)
@Niki: I agree that it’s perfectly possible to get three balls correct just out of chance, but when it comes to the time they got four balls right, I think there was some funny business going on with the predictions, because one person who made guesses that were wildly different (i.e. like 874 and -299). See this blog for more info:
http://mpb1234.blog.co.uk/
(Note that one person being a stooge explains how the predictions were not all clustered around 26 or 27, but it doesn’t explain how they actually got four balls right, which I agree must just have been luck.)
It’s 3: You’re an idiot. He is an illusionist. What part of that don’t people understand. He didn’t predict anything. He revealed the numbers 30 seconds AFTER they were displayed. They can’t be many people with access to the internet who now do NOT know exactly how it was done! And, just like all illusions, the solution is insultingly easy. You see, magicians, illusionists are basically tricksters. And the tricks are usually banal and obvious once revealed.
I think this is why this missing bus footage I’ve discussed is important. Also, I don’t think the numbers could’ve been composited on the balls, if that was the case then why didn’t they just show the bus clip?
The numbers can be composited onto the balls very easily using software such as boujou, or any such motion tracking software, it’s regularly used all the time in tv and film to composite cg elements into live action footage seamlessly. They’re probably just saving the bus clip for the end of the series.
Such camera trickery would also be consistent with the split screen employed on Wednesday.
Hi again ninethirtyfive. I think the answer to why he didn’t broadcast that footage is fairly straightforward too. He’s trying to throw as much confusion and misdirection into the mix as possible. He wants us all talking about it like this. Unseen footage reported by a studio audience is everso compelling in a situation like this. Derren Brown knows that. And look; that trick worked. Look at us still talking about it!
The trouble for him is, the only thing everybody’s talking about is how amateurish and unconvincing the first (camera) trick was, and how long-winded, boring, and unconvincing the final “explanation” was.
Agreed Phil. But I don’t think they will be in a few weeks time. This is an illusion that needs to stew and do its magic. I’m not some massive Derren Brown freak and not even really a fan. But I do think I know what he’s doing here and I don’t think the illusion is over yet…
Well in that case just a word of warning, don’t have too much faith. If you’re really going to follow this through to the bitter end, you should prepare yourself for the mother of all anti-climaxes
Lol. I’ll take that on board… I won’t be desperately disappointed to be honest because I’ve never really been a fan at all. But, that aside, I do think Derren’s very bright, and I don’t believe for a second he’d make a miscalculation as big as the one he appears to have made based on that one show. I’m interested to see how it pans out either way.
Or it could’ve been 4. Derren Brown realised that one or two of the people in the audience may have access to the internet and would post about it when they saw this footage was cut out, thus adding to the intrigue surrounding the whole thing
yes. This is definitely a possibility! He has a Blog site and he tweets and uses Facebook. He is not unknowledgable about how the net works, so I am sure that it is entirely plausible that his marketeers would be advising him to tap into web 2.0 options.
I blog here about once every 6 months. And he had no way of knowing I was going as my name didn’t appear anywhere, my housemate registered the tickets + 3 and didn’t even go
He might not have known about you specifically. He didn’t need to. So many people have blogs, facebook, twitter. He knew that someone would post this and that it would be compelling and intriguing enough to get past on. Web 2.0 is a very powerful tool for someone in Derren’s position.
[...] http://ninethirtyfive.wordpress.com/2009/09/12/derren-brown-lottery-reveal-missing-footage-proves-he… [...]
It wasn’t that weird that your girlfriend was shown on the tellybox; she and the television cameras were in the same room.
Well Badger, as you well know, because we discussed it when I was in your living room last night her appearing at that time was weird because it was completely out of sequence.
Unless of course you mean that she is so stunningly beautiful that if her and cameras are in the same room then she is bound to show up on telly. In which case I wholeheartedly agree.
If the footage on the bus is as you describe this can be very easily faked with motion tracking software such as boujou. The kids would hold up blank balls with tracking dots on them and the numbers composited onto them later. Simple.
I absolutely agree, I DON’T care if he really predicted it, and I don’t think it’s ’shit’ like all the twitter-hate would have people believe, I think he’s fantastic and amazingly clever and he thoroughly entertained me last night. I’ll be watching the other 3 shows just as intently, because I’m not a miserable person who, having discovered I can’t win the lottery by simply clicking my fingers, is now angry at myself for thinking I could and taking it out on the person who outsmarted me. classic childish, stupid behaviour, and a lot of the british public seem to be exhibiting it.
I’m sure there are plenty of people stupid enough to think they can win the lottery by some trick and even more stupid not to realise that if everyone did it the jackpopt would be about two quid. But don’t assume that those people irritated by Brown’s bullshit are all dopes. He simply used a video production trick that has been around for years. It wasn’t clever it’s just that he was in a position to use it to perform this particular trick on TV. He then went on to make claims about how he did it which are simply untrue. I don’t think he’s ever done that before and it crossesd a line for me. Those of us old enough to remember Uri Geller when he started out have seen it all before. Trying to convince the world that bog standard and widely undestood tricks have some other, deeper, complex or esoteric causes. It turned Geller into a rich man but one who is a laughing stock the world over. I hope Brown doesn’t follow him down that road.
I simply think there’s more to this lottery thing than meets the eye, not necessarily with his methods, but what the trick actually IS. I think the logic behind the tricks he showed us was entertaining and clever, for me, the build up and the showmanship and the fact he can get us all talking like this is what is admirable and amazing, like I said, I couldn’t give a crap how he did the lottery numbers. I think this stunt and others will all link together eventually to show something else, so I don’t see why the method by which he did it is relevant.
I think you’re spot-on Lauren, the whole joy of what Derren does is knowing you’ve been tricked and ENJOYING it for entertainment, not trying to be a killjoy and saying it was just camera tricks (which i don’t believe it was – not Derren’s style). I can’t believe the arrogance of the majority of people saying they’re ’smart enough’ to see through it – i don’t think anyone except Derren will ever know how it was really done, and i don’t mind it staying that way.
The bus footage is intriguing though, i bet we haven’t heard the last of it yet…
The guy who was controlling the split-screen effect (and the rest of the production crew) will certainly know how it was done
But if you know how the trick is done, whether it’s this one, or a simple cigarette through the coin illusion, how can you then be said to have been ‘tricked’? Knowing how he did it, and believe me I know exactly how it was done, means that a) it’s not really that impressive and b) everything that followed was, frankly, laughable. Do you still get excited by the ’sawing a woman in half’ illusion? Even though we all know it involves a second person concealed in the apparatus? No! Exactly!
aah there’s that arrogance i was talking about. If everyone ‘knows’ it was split screen why’s it still being debated all over the interwebs? I still think we’re all in for a surprise.
I think some people are still debating it because there are always going to be a certain number of people who don’t accept the most rational, logical explanation for an event and prefer their own explanation.
I myself was sceptical that it was done with a split-screen (mainly because I couldn’t think why if they were doing it that way they’d choose to do it against a brick background, which would show up inconsistencies more easily) until I read a quote from the head of the well-known visual effects company Framestore saying how incredibly easy it would be to do, which convinced me that it’s the best explanation.
Consequently, if that camera/visual effects trickery is so easy to do, why would the production company spend more time, effort and money on more complicated methods (e.g. Wi-Fi enabled LED balls)?
WHETHER it could be done with camera tricks isn’t my point (of course it could) – i just don’t think that’s Derren’s style.
that’s probably what he was relying on to try and dismiss the claims that it was done with split-screen, this idea that he “just wouldn’t do that kind of thing”. what this is based on I have no idea, there was no disclaimer that no camera tricks were employed, and after all is said and done he is a magician, and all magicians are liars
I think that is an important point. Normally he puts disclaimers on this sort of thing, he didn’t this time around.
I think I remember Darren doing a show about the lottery where he filmed all the possible outcomes in advance. Wasn’t it shot in an upstairs empty building?
Who’s Darren?
That would be the great magician Darren Brown. He’s like Derren Brown except that he forswears ‘camera triicks’ like split-screen and offline editing…Oh wait.
Classic case of making you all feel privileged & special as you’ve seen something extra the rest will not, Therefore drawing you all in a little bit more.
I don’t know what the fuss is all about,
Misdirection? Yes.
Forget about picking SIX winning numbers, the jackpot can be won by picking 3 or even one.
Either pick three sets of 2 numbers or just pick one set of six.
Easy.
Interesting. I also noticed the £500k cheque he writes to the guy at the papercut bit is dated 30th November 2008
Top sleuthing! I must go home straight away and watch it again.
Yep, I just rewatched it and whack is right, it’s dated “30.11.08″. So it seems that bit and the bit on the open-top bus were filmed fairly close to each other.
Yes I spoke to that guy on the hospitality bus and he has had to keep quiet about this for AAAAAGES! He was there with his girlfriend and was from Roehampton University (as were the people from the red team blue team coin toss clip).
wait… lol @ all of this. ” I KNOW EMPIRICALLY AND FACTUALLY EXACTLY HOW IT WAS DONE”. of course. everyone’s an illusionist these days.
Why is that so funny? Do you know how the cigarette through the coin trick is done? Sawing a person in half? I do. As do many other people. It’s no big deal. And hundreds of other tricks. Brown’s trick has already been replicated several times on the internet. It’s a basic split-screen video technique that involve absolutely NO skill whatsoever just a lot of bullshit around it to convince people like you that there is more to it. See also David Blane. Check out some illusionist/magic suppliers websites. Hundreds of these tricks are available, at a price, and can be performed by anyone who posseses a bit of showmanship.
You want to believe there is some other mysterios explanation? That’s your perogative. Maybe you also believe the moon landings were faked and the twin towers were demolished with explosives and there was a second gunman on the grassy knoll? It’s called gullibility and people like Brown get rich on it.
I already stated that I don’t care how it was done and I don’t believe it was mysticism, perhaps you don’t know how to read, IT’S ALL A TRICK. whether it’s an optical illusion or one in your head, what matters is that people are treating him like a charlatan, when his ART is duping people. get OVER it guys.
What did daniboi’s comment say – the link seems to be broken.
Here it is in full:
Oh the cynicism. Lighten up – it was a trick! Were you expecting real magic?
I was one of the 24 people doing the numbers thing. A previous poster said
“all he revealed was how to make a group of 24 people believe they predicted the lottery numbers when in fact they had no evidence they’d done anything of the sort. Watching them all whooping and clapping at their own ‘wisdom’ was hilarious and pathetic. The best thing is they probably still believe they did it.”
Nah. We knew – or, at least, around 20 or so of us did – that we were there doing stuff that was meaningless. We were shouting and whooping because we were really pleased at how he’d pulled it off. It was ingenious. Maybe 3 or 4 people – tops – believed we’d done it. The rest of us just thought the same as you: it was a split-screen job.
This is how it worked:
The first time we got together we got one number out of six. This may have been genuine.
The second time we got three. Jiggery-pokery.
The third time we got four, plus “63″ for 36 and “42″ for 41. Definite monkey business. But again, very well done.
So we all knew it was built up so that we’d get 6 out of 6. We knew the Wisdom of Crowds thing was meaningless at generating numbers for a random draw.
And the reason we didn’t get 24/25/26 for every ball: we were allowed to think of numbers below zero and over 50.
But what did you expect? It was a great show. It generated a lot of publicity and thousands of comments/Tweets. What more can you ask for? Camelot and Channel 4 must be laughing all the way to the bank. Job well done, I reckon.
http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:ggI9MCm4UysJ:derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2009/08/events/+derren+brown+bus+children&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
Are these the kids you talked about? This seems like a better link than you provided
@JoeThresh – Good work finding that one, Google’s cache certainly does come in useful
I wonder if any of the kids’ parents (who were presumably along for the ride) took any photos of them holding the lottery balls, hehe (probably they wouldn’t have been allowed to though).
Those are the kids alright, thanks for the link!
Even if the parents took photographic evidence you’d still get the photoshop naysayers so no win’s there!
People want to believe he either predicted or rigged the lottery. It’s our nature to want to be amazed, and to want to be able cheat a system that would bring us untold rewards. But the truth is that neither explanation holds up to any kind of logical scrutiny. The way Derren described ‘fixing’ the lottery wouldn’t work, for so many practical reasons. The way he reckoned he predicted it is just a plain ole lie, and you can tell Derren is enjoying playing with us in that show.#
All that said, I don’t think we’ve even seen the real trick … I posted this link to my theory on my blog on Derren’s facebook comments and my comment was deleted. I find this very interesting given that the comments left there that were abusive or rude were not removed… Curiouser and curiouser. http://nicolamonaghan.blogspot.com/2009/09/personal-thank-you-to-derren-brown.html
The colours of the balls shown by the kids would be illuminating. If anyone who was at the filming can remember.
If all the balls were different colours? Or were the numbers of the balls matching the colour of the balls used in the lottery?
I wonder if it has something to do with the combinatorics he highlighted in Friday’s program – i.e. he did a number of takes of the bus filming with all the combinations of colours that could come out of a draw.
However – either way, either he used camera trickery to doctor the live draw, or video editing trickery to add the numbers to the balls on the bus (which would indicate that he intended to fix the lottery numbers). This is of course assuming that he didn’t trick the audience in to thinking the actual lottery numbers were on the balls. It’s more for curiosity.
I find it difficult to believe one could rig the lottery that easily (if it was that exploitable, how come criminal gangs haven’t been doing it…or have they…) So Occams Razor points me back to the split camera trick too.
I still don’t think we’ve seen the footage from the 2nd camera on the night of the draw – which may reveal everything.
They were all white balls. Similar to, if not exactly the same as the balls he had the numbers on for the draw on Wednesday night.
I’m not saying camera trickery isn’t possible, but if it was camera trickery then why not just show the bus footage? Why bother going through the expense of making that footage for the 140 people in the room too? Strange. Frustrating either way as it looks like we’ll never know!
Why only show you lot the bus footage? Because it’s more interesting that way… It drums up the hype to a new level. To me, this is just obvious but that’s partly carrying through the Sherlock Holmes philosophy. When you’ve eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. There’s no way Derren rigged the lottery. All practical difficulties aside, the method he described wouldn’t even work.
[...] that with random numbers from a machine. Anyways, I done a little bit of digging around and found this guy. He was at the show that ‘explained’ it and says that there was unaired footage played [...]
Yep! That’s right. It was. I was there too!
[...] http://ninethirtyfive.wordpress.com/2009/09/12/derren-brown-lottery-reveal-missing-footage-proves-he… [...]
Interestingly,
On one of the original trailers, here on Google cache,
http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:53QIB3WVnTEJ:derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2009/08/events-trailer-watch/+derren+brown+bus+video&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-a
31-32 seconds in is a red bus, with a fake lottery logo saying “it will be you!”
“Nice one Browner, it was mint”
Do you always talk like a tosser, even to your stunning girlfriend?
Yes
I was in the audience too and can confirm everything you say, except that I know a little bit more about why that clip wasn’t shown on TV
Option 5. The numbers on the bus were another magic trick, but C4 or Camelot asked for it not to be shown as people like yourself would jump to the conclusion that he had somehow managed to rig the lottery as a pose to being a magician who has done a very clever trick. Nothing like the thought of thousands of irate people demanding their money back and a review of security to make them a little nervous and back out.
I don’t discount your second option of showing it later if he’s playing a deeper game and building up to a really big denouncement on his last show. People will forget the disappointment of the first show if he can do something spectacular that maybe ties up to the other shows. Have to wait and see I suppose.
I think you are bang on the money with that analysis Tricki, though I wasn’t aiming it at the Blog’s author like you. I have no idea how the trick was done, but I know the clip exists and I believe it was not shown for that exact reason!
You are assuming that the film itself was digitally doctored in some way to overlay the eventual winning number post production.
A theory as to why it might not have made the screening might be that such a film would have been taking his “possiblity” too far into circumstantial evidence and warranted a police investigation.
A police investigation would have led to complete disclosure (in order for Derren to clarify that he didn’t do anything illegal) . Such full disclosure would have wrecked the program.
So, my theory goes, the editor made the wise choice to leave his “explanation” at a less developed point that only extended to conjecture and theartical images of “insiders” and “heavy balls”.
Of course I mean “WASN’T digitally doctored” in my first line.
Yeah, we’d thought of that – even if they went to Camelot beforehand and told them it was just a camera trick thereby nullifying the threat from the police you’d still be left with the headache of them knowing it was not true and the fact that loads of people would be looking for their money back which was raised yesterday
Nice new info. I think Derren has plenty more secrets regarding the lottery trick. As for the weighted balls rigging theory, heavier balls will be more likely to be chosen by the machine but it’s not a definite thing (after all if it’s in the air after a bounce when the hole opens for about a second it’s not gonna land in time is it) – that could be why he was hoping for 5 numbers. Even so, with weighted balls he could still have only got about 3 numbers I reckon.
Just looked at the trailer linked to above – there is a big red poster behind him with the following website on http://www.retsehcnamdetinu.com/ the site is backwards just like the trailer – the logo is similar to the one on the balloon the girl is holding too. Interesting eh.
christ, all that backwards reading gave me a headache. I also feel like i’ve gone slightly cross eyed xD
Hmmm, the plot thickens! Maybe this is going to get even more complicated. I’m coming round to the idea of the split screen and then the projection on to the balls more and more however still not certain.
Absolutely loving this – thanks for coming to my blog!
Very clever. Derren has CLEARLY done this on purpose to get the likes of me and others on the show ‘leaking’ the details to create buzz and controversy! I LOVE IT! This guy and his PR team get my vole as they have clearly executed a very clever hype marketing campaign to surround this. I don’t mind playing into it a bit
Totally Emma. I would hire Derren’s team to do my PR tomorrow.
So, If Derren reveals this tape, he will be arrested or sued or something? So did he actually Rig the Lottery?
Well derren wouldn’t really have done anything illegal if he had someone on the inside do it for him and the fact that he didn’t buy a lottery ticket would also save him
from any legallitys
I don’t think that’s true Joe, they would’ve nailed him for conspiracy to commit fraud and something along the lines of compromising the National Lottery which is a huge cash cow for the government
yup, most of my summer excavation sessions are paid for by the heritage lottery fund.
and not only that but his fiddling with the draw would mean that the odds of people winning/losing shifted from the natural ‘random’ outcome to one he had chosen, which is not what people sign up for when they pay for a lottery ticket.
Or maybe, after seeing how quickly people saw through the split-screen trick, he thought it would be unwise to broadcast the bus thing. You can’t really tell whether it’s photoshopped if you see it, only once, in a big room on a big screen with lots of people around.
True, although I do remember the balls weren’t right on, the numbers on the balls moved around quite naturally as they were being lifted up. And they looked exactly like the balls on the rack on Wednesday nights draw, which probably just reinforces the that line of thinking.
I’m confused, further up the page in a previous comment you said that the balls held up by the children on the bus were white, like the ones he made the “prediction” on? The balls on the rack he held up at the end of the programme were coloured, like the actual lottery balls.
Story finally breaks in The Sun: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/tv/2637434/Derren-Brown-predicted-Lotto-result-before-Xmas.html
@Andrew, yes, the balls he held up at the end were coloured, because they were DIFFERENT balls from those used in the experiment. He was just showing that it was possible to have exact replicas of lottery balls.
@Lauren: Thanks for the reply, but that wasn’t quite what I was meaning. I was confused because ninethirtyfive said in a previous comment (http://ninethirtyfive.wordpress.com/2009/09/12/derren-brown-lottery-reveal-missing-footage-proves-he-rigged-it/#comment-451) that the balls held up by the kids on the bus in the “missing” footage were white, but then later he said they looked like the balls on the rack (which were coloured, like the real lottery balls). That’s what I’m confused about.
Sorry, I meant the metal rack on Wednesday’s draw
@andrew, are you sure he didn’t mean the clear rack to the right of the television on his live show on wednesday?
Ohh myy goooodd
This is seriousely confuusing :S:S:S:S:S
hmm/////
Sorry if you felt offended by something I’d said on my blog but I think you’ve got the wrong end of the stick. I wasn’t being snidey, and I didn’t think you were trying to mislead anyone. I thought Derren Brown was… (It is, after all, his job to do so and he is very good at it.) I’m not accusing anyone of being a lackey… Just interested in the tactics Derren’s employing and what he’s trying to do. My comments here not exactly trying to push my views on anyone, just joining what I think is a very interesting debate. And the ONLY reason I used to a shortened url to link here is that I copied it AGES ago from where I originally saw it on twitter…
Anyway, as I said, I’m sorry if I upset you. At no point did I mean to dig at you in any way.
No worries Niki, I immediately deleted it anyway as I didn’t see the point. Please pingback in future. Also, it would help if you didn’t write LMAO before linking. Cheers
I was laughing at Derren’s cleverness – nothing else… I think you’re taking it way to personally and it just wasn’t meant that way. Not sure exactly what you mean by pingback but, as I’ve said, nothing I’ve done was about being snidey or trying to hide the fact I’d linked to you, so I can’t really promise I would do anything different in future… My conscience is completely clear.
niki a pingback is where you send credit back to the author of something you’ve borrowed so they know where it’s being used outside their own domain.
Thanks for the explanation Lauren. I didn’t really ‘borrow’ anything but just linked here. Technorati and so on would give the site ‘authority’ on that basis and I would send traffic here so it can only be a good thing, right? I link to lots of other sites and blogs and no one else has ever had a problem with that.
Excellent comment left on Niki’s blog: http://nicolamonaghan.blogspot.com/2009/09/personal-thank-you-to-derren-brown.html?showComment=1253113457392#c739497810219854114
Agreed. Very interesting stuff…
BTW I have changed my wording to hopefully express better what I meant, and to include the unshortened form for your link. As I said, it wasn’t any attempt to mask the fact I’d linked here – just a cut&paste from twitter… I haven’t set up a pingback because that seems like a lot of effort for very little reason, really, but hopefully you can see that I didn’t mean to offend you, and wasn’t trying to be snarky. My amusement is about how well Derren has done his job in terms of getting the rumour mills well and truly grinding. A whole week after his original illusion and we’re still talking about what he’s playing at. Very, very interesting stuff…
That’s cool Niki, you didn’t need to change anything.
There’s been some pretty awesome stuff talked about here alright, Looking forward to my next blog post!
[...] PLEASE read the full blog entry here. [...]
I think it’s clear that
a) he fixed the machine
b) he wont admit it
c) camelott can do squat about it
They would have to invalidate the entire draw! Perhaps reclaim prize money etc.
Better all round if EVERYONE denies it
There was a scene that had to be cut from the show because he was trying to incapacitate the audience with hypnotism, this was probably it – especially since he claims to have got the numbers right and we all know that’s impossible. As it stands he just incapacitated us with boredom.
What i dont get is, when the 24 of them were trying to get the numbers, how on earth did he get “63″? If they are taking the first column of numbers, adding them up and then dividing it by how many numbers they were, how did they get a number above 49?
Surely, if you had 24 people chose “49″ as their first number, the maximum average possible is “49″. How did he even get 63?
Alan, the average was 63 because they were not restricted to guessing 1-49, they were allowed to guess negative numbers and numbers bigger than 49. Also, the mysterious person whose numbers were in Row 9 guessed 874 (no joke). See the posts on this blog (which isn’t mine, btw) for more info:
http://mpb1234.blog.co.uk/
I wonder if Derren is a bit pissed off that there hasn’t been more of a negative reaction to his lottery reveal show. Think of the storm of hatred that David Blaine whipped up when suspended in his box. Derren’s had a bit of that, but it hasn’t really gained critical mass.
The whole series seems to be designed to create endless speculation on blogs, Twitter etc. If a twist is to come later in the series (e.g. demonstrating that a split screen couldn’t have been used; or making us believe, as ninethirtyfive suggested, that the numbers had been predicted a year ago) – then the more that people feel cheated at this stage, the bigger the pay-off later on…
Tell you what, though, I have now persuaded myself another twist is to come – and will be quite disappointed if there isn’t one.
Interesting too to see Derren’s blog referring to the Sunn’s story on the missing footage – with the enigmatic “for those wondering what the snowflake referred to.”
And this trailer for the final episode: “Finally, week 4…is an episode called ‘How to Take Down a Casino’ but there’s a special twist which I will tell you about during the show.”
Casino = lottery maybe?
If you read Derren’s Book, there is a whole section on making a simple trick more interesting. THe example in the book uses the old coin dissapearing from a table.
He makes a point along the lines of saying that if you have a coin on the table and you direct someones attention to it for no apparent reason then thats boring and everyone knows he just slid the coin into his lap.
If, however, its set up so that the coin is ‘accedentally’ on the table, your attention is ‘accidentally drawn to it and the coin appears to ‘accidentally’ dissapear, then that adds the fun element and gets people talking about the trick even though you know he simply slid the coin into his lap.
Thats exactly what he has done here. He has simply used a split screen video trick, but he has made it much more interesting and got people TALKING ABOUT HIM.
I predict that the rest of ‘the events’, just like the lottery results one will be specifically designed, not to impress, but to get people talking about Derren Brown. His internet traffic is already sky high from just one of them. He’s on every channel 4 station simutaneously. His knowledge of Marketing and getting inside peoples heads is unbelivable.
‘The Events’ literally translate into ‘How to become the most famous illusionist in the world’
This is the real trick.
During one of the adverts, I can’t remember which one exactly but it was one of the lottery prediction ones, I saw an advertising board in the background which for no apparent reason caught my eye. A simple flat colour background with writing, It had a single URL on it:
retsehcnaMdetinU.com
I visited this site to see what was there, and it appeared to be a faux Manchester United website (geddit?) but everything on it was spelt backwards. It’s still working now, so go look at it. As you’ll notice it’s just one big link to Derren Brown on Channel4.com.
Does this tie into the hypothesized reverse-storytelling of The Events? What will we discover has been proved to us backwards in the last show?
he’s a hypnotist, but no genius.
very nice page…let me add my 2 cents to this blog by sharing a really good gallery of optical illusions at http://appslog.com/blog/1-blog/836-optical-illusions-what-you-see-is-not-what-you-get.html
Perhaps it was rigged. The Bulgarians have done it (but rather stupidly forgotten to undo it)…….
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8259801.stm
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